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Authentic or just Rude? – Your Thoughts
Ok, so, post your thoughts. Let me hear ‘em. Let’s discuss. Original post from Chris is here.
I think there’s a lot at stake in regards to “how” we speak online as believers.
I’m not necessarily saying that Chris is wrong or right here, but I’d love to hear what you’ve got to say.
Chris, on a side note, I give you props and I love ya man.
Buzz it!
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34 Responses to “Authentic or just Rude? – Your Thoughts”
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There's already been a lot of great conversation on this – I think that we have to look beyond the swearing that he brings up. And really look to the point of being so "passionate" that we're being offensive. If you approach anyone like that – how on earth can they receive from you. On the flip side, if you are laying out the Gospel and it's not offending (by that I mean – bringing conviction) – are you doing it right?
I agree with Brad…let’s look beyond the swearing for a moment. Only cause I know we will get mixed opinions on that and will take away from the focus of the point.
I think God wants us to be who we are “authentically” created to be. But that doesn’t mean that what we have to offer as ourselves is quite ready, or together enough to be “real” in front of people.
What I mean is this…let me give an example.
There are many pastors that people say are real and passionate, but I think they sometimes tend to “bleed on the audience.” Share too much details about their lives (even sex lives with their wives, etc.) Or a testimony that goes into every little detail.
And then there are those people, pastors, etc. that we see as real and authentic, but they don’t feel the need to share everything, etc.
Being real and honest and authentic goes beyond what we say or how we say it. It’s a way of being…and either people come across that way or they don’t.
But I will never buy into the fact of people not picking up on social cues, or contexts, or appropriate language in certain settings, and saying, “but I’m being real….I’m being myself.”
We live in a civil society and there are social norms and rules. Some which are good, and some which are not, I’m sure.
But I can be myself in front of my college students and come across as authentic without being crude, or sharing too much information, or being inappropriate, or trying to hard to connect.
Okay…I’m rambling. I don’t really disagree with Chris, nor do I agree with him.
I think we do need to put down our “glittering images” (Susan Howatch’s novel about the ministry), but that does’t mean we just act upon every little thought and idea that comes through our head.
It’s called a “filter”…or Biblically it’s called “discernment” and “wisdom.”
okay…done.
rhett
I think he is right on with what he is saying. A little shit goes a long way in helping everyone take off their masks.
Personally, I don’t think there are enough Chris Brogans! By that, I mean truly authentic people and the church is FULL of anti-Brogans! I’m not sure if you’ve ever experienced it, but it’s really easy to pick them out when you first move into a new community. You start going to church, and in most cases, you see everyone’s “church persona”. Then, you make a few friends and maybe spend some time together outside of church and WOW! You’re taken by surprise because they are either fake at church or they think swearing and stuff makes them look more cool to new friends. I would say 99% of the time, in my experience, they are fake.
I get odd looks sometimes for the way I speak. I can usually keep myself from cursing in church, but I am not going to filter myself outside of the Holy building. I call it passion…you can call it whatever you want. I will not judge those who put on an act at church and you shouldn’t judge what I call passion. God uses me to advance His Kingdom and my way works for me and for Him. It may not work for you and it doesn’t have to. Praise God that we’re not all twins.
But what if "authentic you" is plagued by a lot of ickiness? Is it okay to just let if flow and use "being authentic" as an excuse?
Don't get me wrong – I have used words in all kinds of situations that would make a sailor put on his earmuffs – but that was old "authentic me."
I think once we know Christ – we have "old authentic me" and "new authentic me." And "new authentic me" doesn't really want to fall prey to the icky ways of "old authentic me" – even though it happens sometimes.
What I don't understand is how one can be speaking to a group and dropping dirty words and still "not be disrespectful" as he said.
The thing is – when we let Christ in fully to our selves – we KNOW what is right and wrong. And the real kicker is – GOD knows that WE know. So swearing and calling it authentic to me is the same as flipping off God.
And I don't wanna do that…
let's be real, let's be authentic…but remember, we hold that in one hand, and wisdom, discernment, character in the other..it's called a filter.
I agree with you. I have been doing this for years. I'm always authentic it's just how much to fully reveal based on the situation or surroundings I am in. I do this and think most do this out of respect for others.
Might be just a slight exaggeration there, don't ya think? I'm talking about how I speak to certain people, not buying someone's dope for them, or picking up the latest porn flick.
All I am saying is what I do is not wrong and it is not ineffective. Guess what? Your methods are not necessarily wrong either and your effectiveness can only be judged by God, not me.
Nah – no exxageration. "Slow fade…" right?
Effectiveness at what?
I would guess that would apply to your effectiveness at anything. Regardless of what it is, I'm not the ultimate judge.
Chris Brogan, Seth Godin, etc……it's their world isn't it? I guess it is just as much as it is mine. But I've seen enough arrogance from some of the leaders in the tech world. Swear if you want to Chris, but if the only reason you are doing it is to feel comfortable I'd suggest that's pretty shallow. We weren't placed into the world to be as successful as we can, be respected by as many people as we can, or be as comfortable with ourselves as we can.
Your world is about other people whether your like it or not. If it's really not about others, then why not find some island to hang out on and not have to worry about what others think at all. No wonder I've never been attracted to subscribing to Brogan, Godin, etc. There's just an air that I smell in their circles. I've been happy to discuss that on occasion directly with them too.
What a great conversation! Thanks for all your thoughts and ideas. I'm a bit envious, as the ChurchCrunch community really spun the conversation into some great places. I love how you tied it back to walking your faith, and what that might mean.
One quick point to make: though I liken my choice of language to authenticity, I also know the proper place of reverence, and respect. I can think of very few times where I'd be tempted to curse in a house of God, for instance. Unless I'm throwing over tables of money changers, I can't see much cause for it, though.
To Gabe Taviano, I'm curious why you consider my choice of words to be arrogance. Is confidence the same as arrogance? I would believe that arrogance would be at the root of things like judgment. Oh wait, here you are judging me. Perhaps I should give you my stone so you can throw it at me. No?
Was it Romans 14:10? You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on
your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
Peace to you all, and thank you for enriching this conversation. I'm grateful for everyone's perspective.
chris, thanks for dropping by! love your stuff and you're creating great conversations for us to have. it's interesting that "authenticity" is important not only in business but also the spiritual.
thanks again for pushing the boundaries.
also, ever think about using Intensedebate on your blog? it would be groovy.
Flippant language just seems childish to me, and not just pertaining to the "churched". Would be thrilled to hear you view on what truly matters, Christ alone and His death on the cross. I'm just a sinner who comments on blogs, so I hope you don't think I'm commenting representing the thoughts of all other Christians. I guess this is what happens when people become real and get deeper than the surface. That's one thing I really like about serious blogs. Very quick with the calling up of Romans 14:10. What Bible software are you using for your studies? Would really recommend Logos if you're looking.
My intent wasn't to throw a stone at you, unless you saw one flying at you I guess? Only God knows the truth behind our confidence vs. arrogance. I'm speculating when I'm guessing that you're most comfortable when you can blurt out whatever you choose to. Very well could be wrong there, and appreciate you asking. I've been arrogant myself many times. I just tend not to post those moments on Viddler. You know how we Christians roll. We only act up when we're not in church and outside of public view.
Peace to all of us “Christians” from people who use examples of our Lord’s life sarcastically (i.e. throwing tables over, etc.). Felt that one go through both ears pretty quickly. Only each of us understands our own confidence and pride issues to the core. I only speak from what I’ve read and seen. Thrilled to see Chris pull out Romans 14:10 so quickly. The internet sure is great for searching for verses right when you need them.
Would be very curious to hear Chris’s true thoughts on what truly matters, Christ alone and not the sins I’m prone to commit while commenting across blogs quickly. Flippant language just breeds immaturity to me I guess. And not just among the “churched” of course.
Wow. Lot of debate going on up in here. Lot of dancing too.
Swearing is not being authentic.
It's being rude.
It's being disrespectful.
It's being tactless.
It's being demeaning (to you and those around you).
It's being uncouth.
It says "I don't care enough about you to watch what comes out of my mouth."
It's not authentic.
That appears to me to be a very narrow view which disregards evidence found in huge swaths of our culture. I can think of two professions that are noble and culturally accepting of expletives. Law enforcement and the military.
Guess they're too busy defending our lives and our liberties to be bothered with defending our feelings.
peace|dewde
hmm. word.
I can't, as a Christian, know when to say when? I don't think Chris Brogan is saying that he stands on stage at his church and swears. We do know right from wrong and whatever way works for me in finding the lost, speaking THEIR language so they will listen and bringing them to Christ, I don't think God is shaming me. You can call it whatever you want; I call it passion. I will use whatever means necessary to bring the peace and love of Christ to those who don't have a clue. I do, however, know when to turn it down and when speaking in a school or nursing home, this may not be appropriate. But I don't have to filter myself to become one of the fakes that fill our churches. I am who God created me to be and I do my job in bringing many to Him. It doesn't have to work for everyone, but it does for me and I bet it does for Him. Praise God that we're not all twins.
I get the whole "speaking THEIR language thing" and I know that Jesus is relatable to me because He came and walked among us. And was tempted by the same sins I am. Kicker being – He didn't succumb to them.
But if I roll down to my friends who are kicking it "old authentic me" style and I don't show any change in my behavior or my attitude or my language for that matter – then really I am just nothing more to them then good old same old me – who now spouts stuff about Jesus.
Ya gotta show change. I don't know how ya do that by choosing to swear, fart in church, look at porn [insert any fun sin here] and excuse it by calling it "authenticity." Why not call it what it is – humans failing? That's what I do – I fail a lot.
Failing….yeah, I'm quite familiar with it myself. Maybe I'm being misunderstood, but I'm not speaking about bringing my friends to Christ. I don't get into the whole "old me/new me" thing. I am who I have always been. Yes, I was baptized and my old life died, but I didn't, and Christ didn't suck the personality out of me. He washed away my sins and now I work for Him. I think we have to be smart enough to know who we're dealing with. Yeah, with friends that knew me before I became a Christian, I may have to use other methods, but for the drug addicted, porn abuser, I can't be that guy. Soon as I start with the "thou shalt not's" and "my cup runneth over's", I'm getting tuned out.
Maybe "authentic" isn't the right word, but in this line of work, I must be consistently inconsistent with how I approach different people. I could quite possibly be failing you in how I do what I do, but I can't imagine that I'm failing Him. The end result is far too great.
Interesting. I most definitely died when I came to Christ. Old me had to. Do attributes of old me ressurect themselves and sneak back in to my life from time to time? Yeah – but I died and have to pretty much die to that life everyday.
I think we (I don't work for a church so i say "we" meaning Christ followers) have to be careful we don't "lose some to get one" in our daily walk. If I am dropping f-bombs, renting porn and driving my buddy to the hood to get hsi next 8-ball… who else is seeing my behavior?
I AM with you on the "thou shall now bow wow…" talk – I still don't like that. But I don't think that is the point – i think that kind of talk is as ineffective as the swearing…
I guess what I am saying is why do we have to hinge it on either end of the spectrum – the naughty dirty mouth or the angelic tongue that gargles with holy water?
Isn't there a nice place in the middle where we can be authentic and not seem fake or appear like nothing has changed in our lives when we found Christ?
The main point is this: be who you are! Some people swear, some people don't. The main point, and as a born again Christian myself thinking on this, is to be who you say you are and not to falter from that – you know the old mantra, say what you do, do what you say. I see too much in the church of being two-face: not meaning one is necessarily rude, crude or whatever, but Sunday morning shows who you are Sunday morning, and people seeing you during week see a different side and myself? I been guilty of this very thing I write about….as I am sure too many of us are.
That's what Chris is truly saying to avoid – avoid being a double sided person, because being double sided is being double minded and that doesn't work – not in the workforce, not in society and certainly not as a follower of Christ. We all see through it most of the time.
There is no debate on swearing or not and how offensive that is at the heart of the point trying to be made by Chris – it was an example used, maybe not the 100% proper example, but just that an example…can we see past what are considered "flaws" or "sins" and see the person, and point being made?
People are people – Jesus sought out the worst of the worst, touched their lives and created change and has asked Christians of all ages and periods of time to do the same. He didn't point the fingers, save for those who tried to say they were "authentic" for God and were not, such as the Scribes and Pharisees, money changers or those who turned the House of the Lord and the Word of the Lord into something He never meant it to be – those who perverted the truth. He has yet to refuse someone who genuinely wants what He offers because He was offended at what they had done or said, "For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God". He didn't walk away because they had little faith – no He calmed the waters, and lifted them up, and in return was glorified.
Had he walked away, had He pointed fingers, had He decided to abstain from being around those who needed Him the most – none of us would have a hope of anything in this life, or the next. The two thieves tell the story the best: One taunting and telling Christ to save himself – the other simply saying, Lord, remember me. Which one was told he would go to paradise?
The one who was a genuine and authentic sinner and didn't pretend to be someone or something else.
But the real, authentic me is a sinner.
Should I just be like “Ahhh, f#$! it – let’s go get a motherf$%#@! hooker on the way to score some d&#@ coke so we can all have some hedonistic fun while just being who we really are!”
If we’re willingly using cuss words in an attempt to “reach people” in the name of Christ – that just feels wrong.
We can be authentic and real as to who we are in Jesus – without giving in to our authentic sinful selves.
So – since we're all authentic sinners at the core – is that what we're supposed to do? Just live our lives as sinners in the name of authenticity and when we find ourselves at death's door say "Jesus remember me – I was just being authentic in all I did"
Is there not to be any change when Christ enters my heart? Man – I am seeing more and more and more why this road is so narrow. I am all for "being who you are." But before I knew Christ or after I knew Him? Cuz that's a big difference in who I am.
And I see Pastor T says he doesnt get into the whole old me vs. new me – but I just don't see how you can't – unless you came out the womb knowing Christ and never were impacted by Satan's world here on Earth. And if that were the case – this conversation would be moot because ya wouldn't be swearing in the first place.
Swearing to reach people "in the name of Christ" just seems so wrong. We can still be authentic and real as to who we are in Jesus without giving in tot he authentic sinners we are.
authentic, maybe. certainly undisciplined; and that is what we are do be as disciples. we aren't animals going through life just doing what we feel like.
Definition: Authentic Christian – one who uses base language.
Somehow I don't think this definition works.
So the thief was saved prior to the moment on the cross, or had accepted Christ, and was just undisciplined? I think he was unsaved, undisciplined and made a choice while on the cross next to the Lord, to accept the Lord. Just as anyone else who chooses salvation and to follow Christ, and Christ has allowed that acceptance to come at any point while still on the Earth in a flesh body – even on the death bead and holds us accountable for sharing or not sharing, choosing not choosing. The disciples were not called disciples and were not disciplined until accepting and following Christ. What and who were they before? Go read the Bible and find out.
Maybe by cussing, Chris is considered undisciplined by this thread, by businesses and maybe not. Maybe he is considered rude, crude or unruly. Maybe he is viewed as a sinner and wrong. Haven't we all been there before? Who shared Christ with you that made a difference in your choice to accept Him? How did they share that with you?
Question is this: Is Chris saved? Or not? Has he heard the truth of the Lord, from a Biblical perspective, rather than from a bickering Christian perspective? How willing, after the comments and discussion here, do you think one would be to hearing the Gospel?
I don't know those answers, nor do probably any of you. I am willing to find out in a non-threatening way, a non-assuming way, and not judge him for any of his choices one way or the other, personal, business or religious – whether we ever talk, meet or else wise interact with each other. Christ doesn't say to boycott the sinner, but to hate the sin, love the sinner….or have we as Christians confused or forgotten that somewhere.
Oh what the bickering amongst Christians shows of the love of Christ to all….none. What the shredding, bashing or boycotting of a "sinner" shows of the love of Christ…I feel it may not show any of His love. Christ showed love to all, and commanded us to do the same.
Are words inherently evil? Is one word more evil than another word? Or does a culture place meaning on words making them evil or not evil? In the 1950's "suck" would have been almost as bad as dropping the f*bomb but now it's common place and acceptable.
If the words we use convey authenticity and we have a right relationship with God, don't you think the Spirit will lead you to use the best words possible to convey Gods message? Could this possibly be base language considering the cultural context of the conversation? I have a Christian friend who lives in an inner city area who would attest that none other than that would penetrate some of those living there because they may not know any other language for lack of education.
Where then do you start, by telling them they need to get better before they can understand God or speak to them at their level in terms they can understand?
Authentic doesn't = base language. But why can't base language can be a tool to communicate God's love?
Ya know what I love about Christians? How we can bicker, fight, debate about anything – how we can twist, redefine, rework, interpret or reinterpret anything so it fits our day to day life. Even the Bible.
Ugh.